Billll’s Idle Mind mentions 20 questions on the Common Gunsense (anti) gun ownership blog. japete posts 20 questions with the stated goal of a dialogue, “I am aiming for common sense and some coming together of minds and hearts to keep people from being shot. ”
My own personal feeling is that the guns that the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution refers to is precisely the guns used to defeat – kill – opposing British soldiers, mercenaries on the other side, etc. Battle field weapons, even if they are ad hoc hunting rifles and officer’s pistols. The reason the 2nd Amendment is there in the Bill of Rights was because the states that ratified the Constitution, that became the United States, were worried. They had survived a Revolution, and wanted assurance that their neighbors and this new government they were forming would not become yet another tyrant. The 2nd Amendment preserves to the people and to the states the ability to resist tyranny. In event that all diplomatic and legal forums fail to check and address tyranny, yet the people would still have the power to overthrow the government. Not the legal means, that is carefully not included. Thus, this force that the 2nd Amendment protects – an armed citizenry – is a “remedy” only of last resort. It is in my mind that the existence of one more “check and balance” of government a and governed is in no small way one of the reasons that the United States government has survived this long. I am convinced that if the 2nd Amendment, right to bear arms, is compromised that the loss of that check on overweening, tyrannical abuse by the federal government that that so-called “gun control” would directly result in the end of constitutional government in the US, and likely also create the environment that other nations would be attacking the US in short order. Pearl Harbor would be as nothing, compared to foreign armies occupying what we still call today, the United States.
So. My take on the 20 questions.
1. Do you believe that criminals and domestic abusers should be able to buy guns without background checks?
Background checks provide the government with a list of gun owners – a short step from gun confiscation, as South Africa just showed the world. Background checks are excellent PR for political candidates, and notoriously ineffective in hampering criminals. We have laws that forbid criminals and domestic abusers from owning guns.
Lists of those that should be denied any civil right or permission, that isn’t a direct result of open court verdicts where the accused can face and refute his/her accuser is a direct violation of due process, an invitation to corruption and abuse.
No, I don’t think background checks work, and no, I don’t think there should be such an expense or restriction or even government involvement in purchasing a firearm.
Background checks have proven, over time, to stifle ownership by law-abiding citizens, while not hampering the so-called targets, criminals and such. The effect is clear to me – anti-gun people are smug at the same time their communities see increases in violent crime as law-abiding citizens disarm. The latest FBI reports show uniformly that states implementing Concealed Carry programs see decreases in violent crime. Some years ago one report checked back on several communities that required every head of household to obtain and have a firearm – and crime went down in those communities.
Nope. I don’t want to put guns in the hands of criminals and abusers. But I sure as heck don’t want to keep guns out of the hands of their next victim.
2. What is your proposal for keeping guns away from criminals, domestic abusers, terrorists and dangerously mentally ill people?
A citizenry and community that is disciplined and armed. Post signs at a schools, shopping malls, and work places that ban weapons: Warning – Entering Disarmed Victim Zone. Mass Shootings happen in Disarmed Victim Zones. The Management takes no responsibility for your safety in a Disarmed Victim Zone.
Terrorists and criminals typically get their weapons from clandestine and criminal sources anyway. Domestic abusers and dangerously mentally ill people are under surveillance, or should be, because they have needs over and above the averages citizen. It isn’t responsible to ignore those in identified need. Merely screening them from purchasing firearms from mainstream vendors only turns the to alternate weapons and alternate vendors. Worrying about domestic abusers and dangerously mentally ill people getting guns is overlooking the fact that you have already failed to protect your community and face your responsibilities to them and their families. In this case, you are looking at the weapons when you should have been seeing the persons.
3. Do you believe that a background check infringes on your constitutional right to “keep and bear arms”?
Yes. It hampers citizens while not hindering undesirables.
In addition, it creates lists of owners that can be abused, either to confiscate firearms to harass owners.
The Constitution makes clear that he government is to have no role in limiting, monitoring, or barring anyone from owning guns. Note that racial bigotry barred African Americans from owning guns that would have protected innocent lives from depredations by vigilantes and such as the KKK. Any restriction is political and subject to corruption and abuse.
4. Do you believe that I and people with whom I work intend to ban your guns?
I just found your blog today. From the questions so far, you are intent on barring those you don’t want to have guns from owning them, and that is a dangerous position to take. It is easy to stretch from “domestic abusers” to “those that don’t need a gun.” And that disowns the assumption of the writers of the Constitution that freedom requires every citizen, regardless of their civic or criminal status, to stand ready to defend against lawlessness, against invasion, and against domestic tyranny.
Did you know that during World War II, there was at least one unit, I believe there were more, made of convicted murders and other violent criminals? I spoke to the survivor of one such unit. They were given assignments that new recruits would be unable to face – difficult odds, hand to hand killing.
When you limit, artificially, the subject of guns to our local neighborhood, you close your eyes and your mind to the myriad Islam sects and others that violently hate the United States, and that would welcome and opportunity to plunder and destroy our government and our worship. You also disregard one of the responsibilities of US citizenship – to hold the government accountable for violations of trust, and of the Constitution.
You are aware, I hope, that the Supreme Court has held that police and sheriff’s departments are not expected to provide protection to any citizen, are you not? That police protect a community in a statistical sense. Some gun enthusiasts express that with a bumper sticker or t-shirt “When seconds count, the police are minutes away.”
Any move to limit and restrict weapons that might be used against a corrupt and tyrannical government, against an invading force, including terrorists, or against domestic criminals, is a move to ban weapons.
And I think you do indeed support part or all of the ban that Secretary of State Clinton and President Obama have been working toward since the Obama inauguration. Instances? The recent consideration of the EPA to ban lead in bullets, ultimately rejected. Last spring the bullet manufacturers were informed that while they had expected to purchase spent bullet casings from the military, henceforth, and despite existing contracts, all such brass would be shredded – making what should have been the basis for civilian reloaded ammunition, instead scrap metal for the Chinese. This attempt to eviscerate the civilian ammunition market was revised after intervention by Senators and Congressmen. At one point the OSHA proposed extending their control over sale, manufacture, and transport of black powder. Again, withdrawn. The international treaty to ban civilian gun ownership and possession is an open secret that pops up in the news every few months that Sec’y Clinton and Obama are negotiating.
5. If yes to #4, how do you think that could happen ( I mean the physical action)?
a. Ban sales of guns and ammunition except to registered police departments and uniformed services.
b. Make it illegal to own, store, or transport a weapon by civilians.
c. Sign the UN treaty that Obama and Clinton want (civilians with weapons can resist tyrants. Tyrants and criminals don’t like armed opponents. Law abiding rulers worry, but are confident in the rule of law.)
d. Make carrying a weapon or something that looks like a weapon illegal – defined as armed and dangerous, and an automatic “shoot on sight” offense.
e. Set up a confiscation program. They have the lists of people that have requested background checks – even though keeping records of who requested a background check is illegal. These lists of checks have been used in court any number of times. Funny how keeping illegal records is supposed to reassure gun owners that even though the officials break the law, gun owners don’t need to be worried that their rights might be violated. Wait – didn’t keeping those records just violate those rights? Yep.
f. Make it illegal for a moving company to move weapons or weapon lockers or gun safes. Make it illegal to carry weapons in a motor vehicle, or to have one in a residence. Ban civilian gun stores and shooting ranges.
6. What do you think are the “second amendment remedies” that the tea party GOP candidate for Senate in Nevada( Sharron Angle) has proposed?
I don’t know. The only instance I know of that the 2nd Amendment preserves, is the illegal use of firearms against a tyrannical government, when the rule of law has broken down and no lesser remedy is available than full and outright revolt against a government operating outside the limits of the Constitution. We may be getting closer to that kind of situation, but I hope we are still a long way off. I am disappointed that the Housed of Representatives has abrogated its responsibility to review and check the President when he exceeds his authority – as when he interfered in the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler, to the detriment of lawful stock holders and the rule of law. The President’s actions had the appearance of violating the Constitution, yet the House failed to investigate, let along censure or impeach. That is a clear failure of the rule of law – and a step closer to 2nd Amendment kind of remedy. As I say, I hope we aren’t there, yet.
Another is the Coates testimony to Congress that President Obama has forbidden any prosecution or investigation of voter abuse or interference with voters – unless the voters are minorities. States identified with voting roles that aren’t current, and thus more liable for voting abuses, also happen to be minority and Democratic party strongholds – and President Obama has again forbidden any investigation or review.
7. Do you believe in the notion that if you don’t like what someone is doing or saying, second amendment remedies should be applied?
See #6 above. The 2nd Amendment applies when the rule of law has broken down, when there are no meaningful remedies under the law.
If the someone is in a position of authority, and claims that the Constitution, and civil liberties, no longer apply to the government, nor protect the peoples of the United States, then I would say, yes, the kind of remedies the 2nd Amendment preserves might be applicable. But that is a lot of caveats.
8. Do you believe it is O.K. to call people with whom you disagree liars and demeaning names?
A person that deliberately utters words and statements known to be false, intentionally and with the intent those words and statements should be used as a basis for actions and decisions by others, should be openly and clearly challenged for lying and deception, for fraud and for misleading. Lying is rude as a minimum, and can be criminal. Lying does not earn, nor deserve, any respect.
As for demeaning names – that gets into cultural values. At times one earns a reputation with a certain label. Objecting to the label when the reputation has been truly and honestly earned is failing to take responsibility for one’s actions. At the same time, deliberately using a term for someone that is intentionally demeaning is rude.
Respect for ones self demands that courtesy be extended, except where courtesy is being manipulated or exploited unfairly. Difference of opinion, or even being wrong, is not the same as a lie.
9. If yes to #8, would you do it in a public place to the person’s face?
If they are lying, and actively, intentionally earning labels that are considered demeaning? Yep.
10. Do you believe that any gun law will take away your constitutional rights?
Yes. Either the federal, state, and local governments abide by the Constitution, or they don’t. It is a bit like being just a little bit not pregnant. Either your rights are interfered with, or they are intact.
11. Do you believe in current gun laws? Do you think they are being enforced? If not, explain.
No. Background checks demonstrate how easily amassing data is abused, regularly. The secret “Prohibited persons” list is another such example. I am convinced that law abiding citizens are harassed and exploited, and subject to current and futures abuse – without controlling guns in the hands of criminals. I also believe that gun control laws intimidate law abiding citizens, reducing security in communities and states.
Enforcement of gun laws is spotty and ineffective. You did read of the plastic guns confiscated, and gun license revoked, for a shipment of paint ball guns to the West Coast, didn’t you? The store importing the weapons was told by an ATF agent – that they could be made fully automatic. Except no one can figure out what the agent meant, or how the plastic guns could be made to shoot a lethal round. Most violations consisted of filling out complicated report forms incorrectly – information in the wrong box, or left out.
No, enforcement is easily manipulated to suit political agendas, and seldom increases community security.
12. Do you believe that all law-abiding citizens are careful with their guns and would never shoot anybody?
I think if anti-gun activists and gun laws weren’t so deliberately intimidating, more law abiding citizens would be more aware of responsible and safe gun handling practices.
Most gun owners never do shoot anyone – even those that go to war in uniform, many times, never shoot anyone. And you assume that there is a difference between law-abiding and shooting someone. Many times it is legal to deliberately defend your self, your property, and your community. In fact, protecting property and family often leads to fewer criminal killings, even when (especially when?) no shots are fired.
People get killed in cars. I see no laws about domestic abusers or criminals getting cars – even though some small portion of all motor vehicles is used during the commission of a crime.
Not all law abiding citizens are gun owners, and some would not handle a firearm. I think more gun owners than car owners are careful with their weapons, and avoid accidents. I am sure that most gun owners have never shot anyone, nor do they intend to, by their dearest wish. But a certain number prepare and train to defend themselves and others – possibly you! – at need.
13. Do you believe that people who commit suicide with a gun should be included in the gun statistics?
Yes, correctly identified – and appropriately compared to other forms of suicide, other defensive, accidental, and criminal killings.
14. Do you believe that accidental gun deaths should “count” in the total numbers?
Yes, as long as they are compared to defensive and criminal deaths.
15. Do you believe that sometimes guns, in careless use or an accident, can shoot a bullet without the owner or holder of the gun pulling the trigger?
No.
16. Do you believe that 30,000 gun deaths a year is too many?
I don’t know. How many were suicides, that would have succeeded using some other agent if the gun hadn’t been available? How many were defensive, and the death was to a perpetrator during a crime? How many were police and sheriff, or other authority actions at what was perceived to be a crime scene? Do you count the gentleman in Colorado last spring, that three police shot to death with no provocation or cause? (OK – one of the cops on the same force, but not present, was dating the guy’s ex-girlfriend. That doesn’t seem sufficient to me.)
How may traffic and pedestrian deaths a year are too many? How many gang-related deaths – gun and otherwise – are too many? How many smoking, inactivity, and bad eating habit deaths are too many? How many backyard pool deaths are too many?
If your numbers – 30,000 are correct, that amounts to about 1 in 10,000, right? Where does that put shooting deaths on leading causes of death in the US? And again, it is frightfully disingenuous and manipulative, to throw out the gross number, when most deaths during a crime are preventable – if the criminal had just stayed home. Counting shooting deaths by criminals is rude and demeaning – many of those could be reduced simply by better informed and wider ownership of guns by citizens.
17. How will you help to prevent more shootings in this country?
Advocate repeal of gun registration and background checks laws, and Disarmed Victim Zones.
18. Do you believe the articles that I have posted about actual shootings or do you think I am making them up or that human interest stories about events that have happened should not count when I blog about gun injuries and deaths?
I think you overlook what security for the community and the nation involve, and the responsibility of citizens to be ready do defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
The details that play out around any violent or accidental death should bother any thoughtful person. Falling off a ladder, falling into a bathtub or swimming pool, none is more heartbreaking for those involved than any others. Did you know the most common motor vehicle/pedestrian death, is backing over a toddler in the family driveway?
Commenting on the Santa Claus killer in California, where eight people were killed – most with burning racing fuel in an improvised weapon – someone pointed out that eight people were killed not because the killer had a gun, but because the killer had the only gun.
19. There has been some discussion of the role of the ATF here. Do you believe the ATF wants your guns and wants to harass you personally? If so, provide examples ( some have written a few that need to be further examined).
I think the ATF thinks their job would be simpler once all citizens are disarmed – and the only weapons in America were in the hands of the police – and criminals. Note that that approach isn’t working out all that well in the United Kingdom.
20. Will you continue a reasonable discussion towards an end that might lead somewhere or is this an exercise in futility?
Probably futile. Where you are convinced that Barry Goldwater was wrong when he said, “You cannot legislate morality,” I am convinced that history has proven him correct.
I look at the issues of defending the constitution, of keeping government honest by the possibility of, but not the threat of, armed revolt in the event of failure of the government to abide by the Constitution, and thereby assuring continuity of government and no need, at present, to exercise that responsibility. I look at the need to stand ready to assist in time of crisis in restoring order or repelling invaders. You might look at how the Swiss manage to avoid being attacked. The Swiss keep their arms after service, and their battlefield rifles are used for regular reserve training, kept in pride of place in their home gun locker.
If your reservation is the number of gun owners that don’t handle guns safely, then the remedy might be universal service, as in Israel, where everyone serves a couple of years.
Did I mention hunting? Some regions depending on hunting to maintain a healthy balance of game animals. Left unchecked, there would be more deaths from driving into deer, etc., and from diseased animals affecting livestock and urban areas.